"Those Boys are Out of Control"

It's been nearly a year since the last time I cried at the playground. In recent months my boys' behavior towards other children has improved dramatically. They're not angels or pacifists by any stretch of the imagination, but enough people at the park call them, "those twins who used to bite," that I can believe that we've finally turned a corner.

So, imagine my surprise on Sunday when we'd been at the park for about ten minutes and Huck threw a handful of sand at another three year old boy's face.

"No," I said firmly. "That is not OK." I know my boys well enough to know that telling them calmly is the best way to get them to respond. When I yell, they keep doing what their doing, but more forcefully.

We've met this boy and his family at the park before. This is both the blessing and the curse of the small town. I turned to tell the boy's mother that I was sorry. She shrugged that familiar empathetic "boys will be boys" shrug.

I turned around just in time to see Huck pick up the little boy's sand bucket and hurl it. Now, I don't know if Huck was aiming at the boy's face, but I intercepted and grabbed Huck and started to carry him to the bench for a time out. That's when Milo stepped in and threw another handful of sand in the boy's face.

Why? Because, that's what identical twins do.

I was clearly outnumbered, everyone watching could see. And people were watching. And if they weren't watching then, they were watching after the father of the boy with sand in his face screamed at Milo, "HEY, CUT IT OUT."

Well, OK. So, he screamed at my kid. I could have screamed back at him, "DON'T YELL AT MY KID. THAT'S MY JOB. AND, BY THE WAY, IT DOESN'T WORK."

But I didn't scream back, because both of my kids had just thrown sand in his son's face and he has a right to be upset. His wife, who was busy wiping sand out of her son's eyes, did not apparently think he had the right and shushed her husband. Suddenly I was in the middle of something I did not at all want to be in the middle of and I wanted to get out of there fast.

With Huck under one arm, I grabbed Milo with the other and was taking them both to the bench when I heard the boy's father loudly respond to his wife's shushing,

"WHAT? THEY HAVE TO BE TOLD. THOSE BOYS ARE OUT OF CONTROL."

I didn't look at the father. I just kept walking to the bench with Huck and Milo and sat them down. At this point the time out was as much for me as it was for them. I put my arms around both of them and told them that it made me very sad when they hurt other kids. I was shaken. I felt like I was going to cry.

As the three of us waited the mandated three minutes for our time out to be over, I didn't cry. And do you know why? Because my kids don't bite other kids anymore. When they see babies now, most of the time they tickle their feet instead of trying to poke out their eyeballs. They're nice kids.

And a father who screams at my three year olds for acting like two year olds and who screams at his wife at the playground has very little to teach me about control.

Comments

[Nick]

I totally agree with the way you handled that situation. Like you say they are acting like children do. I think the father here doesn't get that. I know I didn't before we had our two boys. I thought that children who hit their siblings or other children were bad. I was ignorant, thay are not bad, just children doing what children do. Having said that I would NEVER have shouted like he did. I think he probably needs some child psychology lessons or some sand in his face or something ;-)

[Chuck]

Hello Megan - I've been enjoying the podcast since episode one and have been following here just recently.

What you shared is really tough. I can understand where you are coming from but I can also feel where the dad was coming from. Tough indeed. I'm sorry you had to deal with this but am grateful you shared it.

[Faith]

wow, amen to that last line. nicely wrapped up :D

[debinsf]

Guessing you don't need to hear this either, but this was one of my top 3 parenting posts EVER (and I read too much, so that's a big field).

You've got 3 very lucky kids.

[Mark]

The father was protecting his kids. Can you blame him.

[celery]

Tell the Boys the ground rules to playing in the park. Tell them if either does not follow the rules, they are both going home. The minute they disobey the rules take them both back home. No time out, no "If you promise to be good...". No nothing. No yelling or remarking "Bad Boy". Remind them of the rules as you usher them from the park. Be consistent and firm. They'll get it sooner than you think.

[Denise Howell]

Sand -- who knew something so small and seemingly innocuous could be the source of such extremes of joy and trauma??

You're in the home stretch on this one. They'll clue in soon, as they did with the biting. Don't worry though: once they do, they'll come up with plenty of other socially borderline activities to keep you on your toes. ;)

I've encountered this species of guy before: those who've utterly and conveniently forgotten the impulse control issues they had as a kid, and labor under the delusion that all that's needed is a sufficiently strong hand. Where's a Zoltar machine when you need one?

[Michelle]

Good for your Megan! You did show wonderful control. Yes, sand throwing is just something kids do. You handled it very well, I admire you calm in the middle of a storm!

[Chris Kauffman]

As the father of two kids with a sandbox in the back yard even, I feel like creating a recordings.

"Don't throw sand at {insert brother, sister, friend here}!"
"The sand stays in the sandbox."
"Share the buckets."

Funny thing. Kids love sand. You were absolutely right to handle it the way that you did. You demonstrated good manners and rational behavior to your kids. The other guy demonstrated how to be rude to others in public. Which lesson would you want the kids to remember when they get older?

Were your kids wrong? Sure, whose kids don't make mistakes? However, a grown man screaming at someone else's 3 year-old for acting like a 3 year-old seems worse to me.

[Danny Richardson]

As the father of another rambunctious 3 year old boy I can only echo the comments here saying that you handled the situation admirably. I understand the comments on the father's side, but from your description I suspect that the mother is the primary caregiver as she certainly seemed much more understanding of the situation.

I sometimes have enough trouble managing one three year old - I don't know how you cope with two...

[Joe]

How would the other father and mother tell their side of this story?

[Jessica]

You didn't deserve that...but just imagine yourself in the other child's shoes. It's sometimes harder to be the parent of the "never beligerent" child. How much should you shrug off and when do you get angry. It's frustrating when parent's make excuses for their children.

[Jessica]

You didn't deserve that...but you have to put yourself in the other parent's position. It is a challenge to have rambunctious children, but we can't make excuses for them and just say, "kids will be kids". It is difficult to be a parent of the non aggressive child too -- how much hitting should you/they take before you get angry? I think by 3 our kids know right from wrong and it's up to us to keep them in the proper boundaries. I would have picked my boys up, thrown them in the car and gone straight home. It's so hard....

[Laura]

Let's play devil's advocate for a minute... with both your twins responding as they did... did that other little boy do something "passive-aggressive" , taunting them?? The mother may have been used to his behavior.. and she shrugged it off, while the Dad obviously has issues.
Love your blog as always!!

[Jeff]

Similar situation with my 3yrold at McDonalds playground. A little girl was pesterig my my 3yr old about playing with her. She got right in his face. He didn't like it and told her he was going to kick her if she didn't leave him alone. The mother, just feet away, spoke only then when her daughter was threatned (not when she was mouthing to my son loudly). She got up in front of us and directly walked over to him and got in his face and screamed (You don't talk to my girl like that) A big No No folks, don't ever discipline another personss children, not your job. My wife jumped up and proceeded to read the woman her rights about this and tell her that her daughter initiated the verbal assualt. Wheeew! Thanks be that I was in the restroom.LoL!

[Katrina H]

Thank you for posting this story. As the mother of two young children, it is nice to know that others struggle with their child's behavior from time to time. I like the way in which you handled the situation and were able to give your children what they needed despite the other parent's anger. I love the podcast and look forward to it each Monday.

[Sara]

That's great, Megan. I know with my two, one of them is really 'friendly', and can get into trouble. People either give us looks, or tell us we're too hard on them.
Just wanted to say that I empathize and that I think you did the right thing.
I think every kid needs different raising, which is why they have different parents. Otherwise, we'd have robot armies. :)

[cry it out!]

You are a very strong person for handling that situation so well -- you should be proud. And what a complete ass hat! How does he expect 3 year olds to act?! And I second the sentiment -- that was a lovely wrap up to the post.

Mike

[Nikki Massaro Kauffman]

I'll agree with everyone else and say that it's the age.

Both of my kids went through these phases. My daughter was the biter; my son is the hitter, spitter, and kicker. Every now and then I still have a moment of public mortification with my 3-year-old son.

Like you, I came to realize--especially with my little guy--that raising my voice sometimes only escalates the alpha tantrum mode. Physical contact, reasoning, and making him understand the effects his actions have on his victims seem to get me better results. (Though I have used the threat of the getting the "mean voice" out and it seems to make an impression and have been accused of doing it on occasion: http://www.personal.psu.edu/lnm105/blogs/smallparts/2008/05/taking-after-aunt-cathie.html.)

Of course, nothing is fool-proof. When I was a teacher, someone once told me you can't expect to control the kids. If you can't control your spouse, a grown rational adult, then accept the fact that all you can do is try to influence kids' behavior as best you can.

Also, I didn't want to teach him good behavior by modeling bad behavior. Like the man who clearly had a tantrum of his own.

[Yelkereb]

I'm not sure how putting yourself in the shoes of the other parent is really all that important to the story. In the end I don't see a denial of wrong doing, or an attempt to ignore or gloss over the inappropriate behavior. The other father's response was a clear outburst of anger and loss of self-control that wasn't required to resolve this situation. It teaches children when all else fails, or in this case when your simply unhappy with what's happening just scream at the offending party. I'm not sure that's an appropriate life lesson. The natural instinct to protect your children is innate and powerful controlling the impulse to lash out though (especially at a young child) is an expectation of adulthood. His immediate willingness to yell at his wife as well is the ultimate indication that he’d lost control.

[debegray]

The way I look at it, I only intervene with the other child if the parent is paying absolutely no attention. If the parent is clearly taking control of the situation, the way you did, there's no need for me to say anything. He should have just stayed out of it.

[Emilee]

I've never posted before but this one caught my eye. Great post and I agree that you handled it well. I for one have been on both sides of the situation. My oldest son has always been a 'rule follower.' I thought I was a really good parent because he didn't do things like bite or throw sand. I couldn't understand why other parents didn't have more control over their children. I was really clueless. Of course, I never yelled at other people's children, but I can see where the father of the other boy is coming from.

Then I had my second son and I realized how clueless I really was. It sounds like my youngest is very much like Milo & Huck (except I only have one -- you're amazing to deal with two!), and all the rules that worked with the first just don't work with him. I've come to realize all kids are different and respond differently. And some will do everything in their power to do what you DON'T want them to do.

It's hard to say what I would have done if I were you, because I wasn't there, but I think I would have just picked up my son and gone home. He would have thrown a fit and the rest of the afternoon at home would be miserable for both of us, but hopefully he would think twice before doing it again next time.

By the way, I love your blog and your podcast. You and Leo are a good pair. Leo is really funny - I'm still laughing about freepants.org (from the Dad Gone Mad episode).

[Emilee]

I've never posted before but this one caught my eye. Great post and I agree that you handled it well. I for one have been on both sides of the situation. My oldest son has always been a 'rule follower.' I thought I was a really good parent because he didn't do things like bite or throw sand. I couldn't understand why other parents didn't have more control over their children. I was really clueless. Of course, I never yelled at other people's children, but I can see where the father of the other boy is coming from.

Then I had my second son and I realized how clueless I really was. It sounds like my youngest is very much like Milo & Huck (except I only have one -- you're amazing to deal with two!), and all the rules that worked with the first just don't work with him. I've come to realize all kids are different and respond differently. And some will do everything in their power to do what you DON'T want them to do.

It's hard to say what I would have done if I were you, because I wasn't there, but I think I would have just picked up my son and gone home. He would have thrown a fit and the rest of the afternoon at home would be miserable for both of us, but hopefully he would think twice before doing it again next time.

By the way, I love your blog and your podcast. You and Leo are a good pair. Leo is really funny - I'm still laughing about freepants.org (from the Dad Gone Mad episode).

[Fred]

I am a father of a 4yo boy. Call me clueless about your struggles to control twin 3yo boys, but I would be rightfully upset if my son was the son in this story with sand repeatedly thrown in his face. In the course of a few moments your kids alternate throwing sand in his face and trying to hit him with a bucket.

With your reputation on the playground of being the parent of the "twins that used to bite", and then witnessing your kids both throw sand in my sons face, I would have been frustrated and called your kids "out of control" too.

Yelling is an act of frustration/last resort, but dismissing very poor behavior as "boys being boys", especially where one child is intentionally hurting another, is totally unacceptable. The dad lost his cool, but if your kids have a known history of biting/aggressive/unruly behavior and then show up at the playground wanting to play with my son, I would be on edge to.

You said that you were "clearly outnumbered, everyone watching could see". Everyone in this forum is making this guy out to be some monster. Screaming at your kids while towering over them is clearly wrong. Yelling from 15-20 feet away, for your kids to stop repeatedly hurting his son, sounds more reasonable to me. Why is he a bad guy for stepping-in when it is apparent that your kids do not know how to act around other kids and you appear 'outnumbered' and satisfied/comforted that at least they are not biting anymore.

If you change the story to...
"Frustrated after watching his son get a second handful of sand in his face by my children, the father scolded Milo to "Hey, cut it out!". As I picked both of my boys up and headed towards the 'timeout bench', I heard the mother, sheepishly trying to quiet the father, not wanting to make a scene, especially in this small town. The father, aggravated at the notion that he should sit back while his son is abused like this by my twin boys, continues "What? They have to be told. Those boys are out of control." Feeling embarrassed and frustrated by my kids behavior, something I have struggles with for over a year, I continue walking towards the bench, without looking back."

Bad behavior is bad behavior at any age, and dismissing it as "boys will be boys" or "just a phase that they will grow out of" is a cope-out. I regularly ask my son, to be considerate of others & to apologize when he is being "naughty". His behavior is a reflection of my parenting skills/values & it breaks my heart when I seem a parent make excuses or dismiss their child's poor behavior.

Every parent has bad days, where we lose our cool, particularly out in public. I have seen plenty of parents being 'less than perfect' with their kids, and can only imagine how I must seem to others on my bad day. It is so easy to judge another parent, yet we are so defensive when others point out our failures. There are always two side to every story & I can only imagine what the father's blog would say about the same situation.

Everyone in this forum loves you from the Screensavers-days, but honestly I would not want your kids playing with my son, until they learned to control themselves better. I totally agree with Mark, "the minute they disobey the rules, take them back home" especially given your kids history, especially in a small town.

At what age does bad behavior change from "being just a phase" to "being an undisciplined kid" to "being the school-yard bully"?

[Joanne]

I don't know which of the boys my son will be. (He's only 3 months.)
If Andrew grows up to be the 'Sand-in-Face' boy, how would you suggest I act?

In this situation, the father is clearly upset and thinks your boys are acting inappropriately-repeatedly. Would you have been more/less upset if he calmly told you, to your face that "Your boys are out-of-control?"

I think you did the right thing in this situation, but what would be a proper response if the sand was in Milo and/or Tucks face?